systemd könnte Debian spalten

Wie ich bereits berichtet habe, greift systemd tief ins System ein und läßt sich momentan auch nicht aus Debian 8 Jessie (testing) entfernen. Es sorgt dafür, dass mit einem aktiven Samba-Server ein Shutdown mit einer 5minütigen Wartezeit verlängert wird. Diesen Bug kann momentan nur umgehen, indem man den Samba-Server abschaltet. Gnome scheint sich aber bereits von systemd abhängig gemacht zu haben. Nun regt sich Protest und es wird gedroht, Debian zu spalten und einen Fork zu starten. – Es wird immer trauriger, was ein ungeliebtes Stück Software aus einem Projekt machen kann…

Um es ganz klar zu sagen: Ich mag systemd genau so wenig wie pulseaudio. Das sind beides unnütze Programmschnippsel, die das System langsam und instabil machen. Es muß aber doch andere Wege geben, als Debian aufzuspalten. Es kann doch nicht sein, dass ein einziger Programmierer mit blöden Ideen das gesamte Projekt gefährdet. Und es kann auch nicht sein, dass andere Programme wie Skype auf pulseaudio und Gnome auf systemd bestehen. Was passiert hier? Hat Lennart Poettering etwa vor, Linux so großen Schaden zuzufügen, dass nur noch ein Wechsel auf ein kommerzielles Betriebssystem übrig bleibt? Einen Nutzen sehe ich in seinen Tools nicht.

Hier der Artikel bei „Erneute Diskussion um Systemd bei Debian„.

hier noch der originale Text auf ~~~ ~~~

Shall we fork Debian™? :^|

Who are you?!

We are Veteran Unix Admins and we are concerned about what is happening to Debian GNU/Linux to the point of considering a fork of the project.
And why would you do that?

Some of us are upstream developers, some professional sysadmins: we are all concerned peers interacting with Debian and derivatives on a daily basis.

We don’t want to be forced to use systemd in substitution to the traditional UNIX sysvinit init, because systemd betrays the UNIX philosophy.

We contemplate adopting more recent alternatives to sysvinit, but not those undermining the basic design principles of „do one thing and do it well“ with a complex collection of dozens of tightly coupled binaries and opaque logs.
Are there better solutions than forking?

Yes: vote Ian Jackson’s proposal to preserve freedom of choice of init systems.

Then make sure sysvinit stays the default for now, systemd can be optional.

Debian leaders can go on evaluating more init systems, just not impose one that ignores the needs of most of its users.
Why don’t you do that yourselves?

We are excluded from voting on the issue: only few of us have the time and patience to interact with Debian on a voluntary basis.

Now we do what we can, hoping our concerns will be heard by those who can cast a vote about it.

Since this seems to be one of the most prominent critiques, we’d like to clarify this point.
With lack of time and patience we refer to our possibility to be involved in a complex
bureaucratic system like the one governing Debian. While we respect this way of working,
we think that our time is better invested in new directions, also according to our expertise.

Is really all this fuss necessary?

To quote Ian Jackson:

„This resolution is not only important within Debian, and not only for jessie (its next release). It is also important feedback for upstreams, and our peer distros and downstreams“.
Why is this happening in your opinion?

The current leadership of the project is heavily influenced by GNOME developers and too much inclined to consider desktop needs as crucial to the project, despite the fact that the majority of Debian users are tech-savvy system administrators.
Can you articulate your critique to systemd?

To paraphrase Eric S. Raymond on the issue, we see systemd being very prone to mission creep and bloat and likely to turn into a nasty hairball over the longer term.

We like controlling the startup of the system with shell scripts that are readable, because readability grants a certain level of power and consciousness for those among us who are literate, and we believe that centralizing control services, sockets, devices, mounts, etc., all within one daemon is a slap in the face of the UNIX philosophy.
How long are your beards?

This is not a beard contest, rest assured the furry ones among us are not sheeps.
To sum it up?

If systemd will be substituting sysvinit in Debian, we will fork the project and create a new distro. We hope this won’t be necessary, but we are well prepared for it.
We need to talk.

Sure, write an email to
Are you guys alone in this?

Not at all, there are more protests against the imposition of systemd on users.

This article is a good introduction to the issue at hand: Systemd: Harbinger of the Linux apocalypse.

There is the boycott systemd website providing several references.

Then there is the „systemd fork“ called uselessd with some good points and lots of lulz.

The wikipedia page lists also some critiques in its systemd reception section.

With our protest we intend to represent the discontent of Debian users, because that’s who we are. We intend to keep using Debian on our servers, or a fork if necessary. Others might have other goals, but we all share a common problem: systemd being imposed on us.
Thanks for doing this. How can I help?


You can help by talking to fellow Debian developers and convince them of how wrong is to betray a very big and relevant userbase by listening to desktop needs.

Also it can be helpful to monitor and update the Wikipedia page about systemd.
How are people reacting to your protest?

Here below some of the messages we are receiving. If you write us please specify if you allow us to quote your nick, else we may quote you anonymously, or not quote you at all if you specify so.


Nachtrag 20.10.14 18:55

Ich hätte es nie so formuliert, aber andere scheinen genau wie ich zu denken und zu fühlen. Ich hab sehr gelacht :-)

Hier die künstlerische Umsetzung in Musik „fuck systemd“

und ein Text dazu

„Fuck Systemd. It is passionless static, worthless.
Only here to force us in a direction.

And Linus Trovalds agrees 100% with that direction.
But he never claimed to be brilliant
nor have good taste in women
nor be uncorruptable
(got to keep that RedHat stock valuable)

This was recorded in the morning
Fuck Systemd.
Fuck Lennart Poettering.“

Link zur Quelle

Nachtrag 20.10.14 19:00

Ich war mit meinem Artikel oben übrigens schneller als golem! :-)

Systemd-Diskussion – Debian könnte geforkt werden

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